Comments on: The separation of church and school http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=separation-of-church-and-school Toronto's new weekly city magazine Thu, 20 Jun 2013 03:10:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: meg http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-44204 meg Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:08:06 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-44204 Leo, you are wrong. Most Ontarians do not have the right to choose which system to support. Only Roman Catholics have that right. Leo, you are wrong. Most Ontarians do not have the right to choose which system to support. Only Roman Catholics have that right.

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]]> By: Happy to know that http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-41096 Happy to know that Wed, 07 Nov 2012 19:12:11 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-41096 @MO Your figures are waaay out of date. It now costs well over $10,000 per child per year in Ontario's publicly funded school systems (the smaller the system, the more costly). @MO

Your figures are waaay out of date. It now costs well over $10,000 per child per year in Ontario’s publicly funded school systems (the smaller the system, the more costly).

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]]> By: Happy to know that http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-41095 Happy to know that Wed, 07 Nov 2012 19:09:39 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-41095 Thanks brother. I'm very happy to know that! Thanks brother. I’m very happy to know that!

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]]> By: PJ http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-39250 PJ Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:16:10 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-39250 Here's some information that might be of interest to students in Catholic high schools. I bet that your school has told you that religion is a mandatory course and that 4 religion credits are needed for graduation.... Lies!!! Below is sec 42(13) of the Education Act (the law). What it says is that if your parents are public school supporters( designation on property tax assessment) then you must be exempted from religious instruction upon request. It has been this way since 1985 when premier Bill Davis extended funding to Catholic schools. Part of the deal was open access to all faiths and this exemption from religion. The only problem is that all 29 separate boards in Ontario have been telling the same lie since then that religion is mandatory. It's not. I received an exemption from religion for my children who attend a Catholic high school. They resisted at first until I stated my case and threatened legal action. They folded like a house of cards and granted the exemption. They don't want you to know this. Now you know.( btw if your parents are separate school supports, that can be easily changed with a check mark in the correct box at your local MPAC office) Additional exemptions 42(13) In addition to the exemptions provided for in subsection (11), no person who is qualified to be a resident pupil in respect of a secondary school operated by a public board who attends a secondary school operated by a Roman Catholic board shall be required to take part in any program or course of study in religious education on written application to the Board of, (a) the parent or guardian of the person; (b) in the case of a person who is 16 or 17 years old who has withdrawn from parental control, the person himself or herself; (c) in the case of a person who is 18 years old or older, the person himself or herself. 2006, c. 28, s. 9. Edit Reply 15 hours ago 0 Like F Flag . Vincent 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand Here’s some information that might be of interest to students in Catholic high schools. I bet that your school has told you that religion is a mandatory course and that 4 religion credits are needed for graduation…. Lies!!!
Below is sec 42(13) of the Education Act (the law). What it says is that if your parents are public school supporters( designation on property tax assessment) then you must be exempted from religious instruction upon request. It has been this way since 1985 when premier Bill Davis extended funding to Catholic schools. Part of the deal was open access to all faiths and this exemption from religion. The only problem is that all 29 separate boards in Ontario have been telling the same lie since then that religion is mandatory. It’s not. I received an exemption from religion for my children who attend a Catholic high school. They resisted at first until I stated my case and threatened legal action. They folded like a house of cards and granted the exemption. They don’t want you to know this. Now you know.( btw if your parents are separate school supports, that can be easily changed with a check mark in the correct box at
your local MPAC office)

Additional exemptions
42(13) In addition to the exemptions provided for in subsection (11), no person who is qualified to be a resident pupil in respect of a secondary school operated by a public board who attends a secondary school operated by a Roman Catholic board shall be required to take part in any program or course of study in religious education on written application to the Board of,
(a) the parent or guardian of the person;
(b) in the case of a person who is 16 or 17 years old who has withdrawn from parental control, the
person himself or herself;

(c) in the case of a person who is 18 years old or older, the person himself or herself. 2006, c. 28, s. 9.

Edit Reply 15 hours ago 0 Like
F Flag .

Vincent 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand

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]]> By: Toronthab http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-39221 Toronthab Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:18:43 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-39221 So .. disagreeing with some value you might cherish.. .like divorce .. or abortion .. is somehow to be hateful? Is the world going insane? Do you see how perfectly you are manifesting intolerance and hatred? All a person has to do is disagree with you and seek to raise their children with their values ,not yours and you can't tolerate that others think and act differently. You're pretty scary. You are manifesting exactly what you are accusing those other people of being. This is paganism? No thanks. So .. disagreeing with some value you might cherish.. .like divorce .. or abortion .. is somehow to be hateful? Is the world going insane? Do you see how perfectly you are manifesting intolerance and hatred? All a person has to do is disagree with you and seek to raise their children with their values ,not yours and you can’t tolerate that others think and act differently. You’re pretty scary. You are manifesting exactly what you are accusing those other people of being. This is paganism? No thanks.

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]]> By: Toronthab http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-39220 Toronthab Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:08:29 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-39220 Maybe some people don't mind the Catholic school system or Jewish schools because they believe in parental rights and diversity and respect the God given rights of human beings. Some people just aren't bigots. Go figger. Maybe some people don’t mind the Catholic school system or Jewish schools because they believe in parental rights and diversity and respect the God given rights of human beings. Some people just aren’t bigots. Go figger.

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]]> By: argofandave http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-39212 argofandave Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:11:01 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-39212 Catholic high schools can accept non-catholics but they don't have to. Catholic elementary schools have they right to refuse all non-catholics. My baptism argument is from a job ad in my local newspaper last year where a non-teaching job in a local catholic school was advertised but candidates had to show their baptismal certificate in order to get a job interview. Our constitution allows all provinces to stop funding the catholic school system. Manitoba hasn't funded catholic schools in over 100 years and both Quebec and Newfoundland & Labrador stopped the funding the school system about 15 years ago. The catholic system performs higher than the provincial average because the public system has to accept all students and the catholic system does not. My argument is non-sectarian because I don't want the government to fund any schools that segregate students based on religion. I would be using the exact same arguments for any faith based school system. Catholic high schools can accept non-catholics but they don’t have to. Catholic elementary schools have they right to refuse all non-catholics. My baptism argument is from a job ad in my local newspaper last year where a non-teaching job in a local catholic school was advertised but candidates had to show their baptismal certificate in order to get a job interview. Our constitution allows all provinces to stop funding the catholic school system. Manitoba hasn’t funded catholic schools in over 100 years and both Quebec and Newfoundland & Labrador stopped the funding the school system about 15 years ago. The catholic system performs higher than the provincial average because the public system has to accept all students and the catholic system does not. My argument is non-sectarian because I don’t want the government to fund any schools that segregate students based on religion. I would be using the exact same arguments for any faith based school system.

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]]> By: MO http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-39206 MO Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:19:31 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-39206 @ argofandave I am glad you are following education in Ontario. First point you need to know is that it costs on average $5500 to educate one child per year. School boards share busing, facilities and library books etc. Schools are funded on enrollment and under enrolled schools are closed or share with another school to make the buidling viable. There are very little savings to be made. I paid $60k in taxes last year, therefore my tax money funds my children's education. All Catholic high school accept all faiths. So they are not racist. FYI the word you are looking for is sectarian. Racism is an entirely different form of prejudice. If you spent any time in a Catholic school you will learn that many children are of mixed faith and an ever growing number have never been baptized. So there goes your baptism argument. The right to hire teachers that are Catholic is enshrined in the British North American Act that lead to the creation of Canada. That makes it a constitutional right. It was put in there along with French language rights to protect the identity and faith of the groups that formed Canada. The Catholic school system is no different than the French school system or the French Catholic system. Nobody is screaming blue murder to defund a school system that only allows students that can speak the French language. All the mainstream parties have reviewed the Catholic education debate in detail and parties know that it makes no sense to defund a school system that performs higher than the provincial average and also makes a massive contribution to society. Both Hudak and McGuinty are Catholic. Frankly I find your argument a bit sectarian and brings us back to why the Catholic school system was created. @ argofandave

I am glad you are following education in Ontario. First point you need to know is that it costs on average $5500 to educate one child per year. School boards share busing, facilities and library books etc. Schools are funded on enrollment and under enrolled schools are closed or share with another school to make the buidling viable. There are very little savings to be made.

I paid $60k in taxes last year, therefore my tax money funds my children’s education. All Catholic high school accept all faiths. So they are not racist. FYI the word you are looking for is sectarian. Racism is an entirely different form of prejudice. If you spent any time in a Catholic school you will learn that many children are of mixed faith and an ever growing number have never been baptized. So there goes your baptism argument. The right to hire teachers that are Catholic is enshrined in the British North American Act that lead to the creation of Canada. That makes it a constitutional right. It was put in there along with French language rights to protect the identity and faith of the groups that formed Canada. The Catholic school system is no different than the French school system or the French Catholic system. Nobody is screaming blue murder to defund a school system that only allows students that can speak the French language.

All the mainstream parties have reviewed the Catholic education debate in detail and parties know that it makes no sense to defund a school system that performs higher than the provincial average and also makes a massive contribution to society. Both Hudak and McGuinty are Catholic. Frankly I find your argument a bit sectarian and brings us back to why the Catholic school system was created.

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]]> By: Arash http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-39201 Arash Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:07:24 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-39201 Hey Toronthab Believe it or not, I know the ways of this kind of argument you are conducting very well. I am not attached to any kind of "-ism" so I am not here to defend any. I clearly know the difference between spirituality (a direct connection with the source, whatever you call it) and religion as the business made around that demand for the connection. I don't need any priest, mullah or rabbi to tell me how my connection should be and pay them for their "services". And yes, the age of western progress started exactly after they put religions in churches (only) and began to believe in human wisdom and values, couple of centuries ago. You tend to separate my "muslim experience" from your "western" thing...a separation quite normal for a religious guy. Humanity is just One. Religions are so many. I don't want to live with that separation here in Canada. I have had enough of it elsewhere. Been there, Done that, you know? Hey Toronthab
Believe it or not, I know the ways of this kind of argument you are conducting very well. I am not attached to any kind of “-ism” so I am not here to defend any. I clearly know the difference between spirituality (a direct connection with the source, whatever you call it) and religion as the business made around that demand for the connection. I don’t need any priest, mullah or rabbi to tell me how my connection should be and pay them for their “services”. And yes, the age of western progress started exactly after they put religions in churches (only) and began to believe in human wisdom and values, couple of centuries ago. You tend to separate my “muslim experience” from your “western” thing…a separation quite normal for a religious guy. Humanity is just One. Religions are so many. I don’t want to live with that separation here in Canada. I have had enough of it elsewhere. Been there, Done that, you know?

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]]> By: shmengy http://www.thegridto.com/life/parenting/separation-of-church-and-school/#comment-39200 shmengy Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:05:19 +0000 http://www.thegridto.com/?p=71669#comment-39200 @argofandave It's a nice thought...but only in a place where a majority gets you elected. We have first past the post. Which means that 3 million people are enough to lose you seats all over the province. That's what they don't do it. @argofandave

It’s a nice thought…but only in a place where a majority gets you elected. We have first past the post. Which means that 3 million people are enough to lose you seats all over the province. That’s what they don’t do it.

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