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	<title>Comments on: Why attack a straw man when we can discuss his ideas instead?</title>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-45013</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The road to hell is paved with good intentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45013', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-45013" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45013', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-45013-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">2</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-45013" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('45013', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-45013-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">0</span></p>
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		<title>By: mrgreb</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44973</link>
		<dc:creator>mrgreb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2013 19:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>According to your definition, Hitler had &quot;good intentions&quot; - no doubt he sincerely believed in what he was doing.
I think what you mean to say is that the Mayor is sincere - he is not disingenuous - he is just mostly wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to your definition, Hitler had &#8220;good intentions&#8221; &#8211; no doubt he sincerely believed in what he was doing.<br />
I think what you mean to say is that the Mayor is sincere &#8211; he is not disingenuous &#8211; he is just mostly wrong.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44973', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44973" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44973', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44973-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">3</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44973" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44973', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44973-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">7</span></p>
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		<title>By: Albin</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44954</link>
		<dc:creator>Albin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegridto.com/?p=123414#comment-44954</guid>
		<description>As one ages, it hit me in my thirties, one realizes that delving into the wet grey brain of someone with different ideas to discern morality or venality is pretty useless.    That&#039;s not what turns the political steering wheel.  I&#039;m inclined to ignore Ford&#039;s unattractive mentality (ugh) and settle for what should be obvious:  he&#039;s from out of town, a suburbanite, a political phenomenon that could never have happened to the original Toronto without the Harris Tory amalgamation.  

Whatever Ford is might be perfectly appropriate and even valued if Etobicoke had been grafted onto Mississauga, for instance.  But creating a voting majority of surburbanites like him to impose on the real Toronto was a political malfeasance of the first order.  I&#039;m not interested in Ford except as an almost cartoonish Harris Tory revenge on a city that would never vote Tory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one ages, it hit me in my thirties, one realizes that delving into the wet grey brain of someone with different ideas to discern morality or venality is pretty useless.    That&#8217;s not what turns the political steering wheel.  I&#8217;m inclined to ignore Ford&#8217;s unattractive mentality (ugh) and settle for what should be obvious:  he&#8217;s from out of town, a suburbanite, a political phenomenon that could never have happened to the original Toronto without the Harris Tory amalgamation.  </p>
<p>Whatever Ford is might be perfectly appropriate and even valued if Etobicoke had been grafted onto Mississauga, for instance.  But creating a voting majority of surburbanites like him to impose on the real Toronto was a political malfeasance of the first order.  I&#8217;m not interested in Ford except as an almost cartoonish Harris Tory revenge on a city that would never vote Tory.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44954', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44954" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44954', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44954-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">7</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44954" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44954', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44954-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">11</span></p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44944</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;In voting to remove the Jarvis bike lanes John Parker showed his callous disregard for the safety of cyclists...&quot;

Yours is an interesting take on that situation, Mr. Keenan. 

Are you forgetting that Councillor Parker&#039;s involvement in returning Jarvis Street to its again more dangerous, 1957-designed, five narrow-laned configuration, began with his late &quot;stealth&quot; motion - which not only effectively silenced any public input, but also muzzled taxpayer-funded expert transportation staff opinion regarding attendant street-level safety implications - at the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee (PWIC)? 

You may also not be aware that repeated calls to the Councillor&#039;s office  (following the PWIC&#039;s subsequent majority - Minnan-Wong, Shiner, Grimes and again, Parker - vote to recommend that City Council rescind its approval of the Jarvis bike lanes) to discuss, as you so wisely suggest, the citizen-safety ramifications of said Committee members&#039; purely partisan-guided collusion, were ignored.

But don&#039;t take my word for it. 

Why not do a little more journalistic homework and ask - in this case, Parker&#039;s assistant, Ishrath Velshi - about the stonewalling Councillor&#039;s refusal to &quot;have a debate&quot; on the subject before spreading your own ill-informed, and here so misguided, opinions on the pages of this sadly still-struggling little &quot;news&quot;paper.

Those of us who daily face the physical threat that current City Hall corruption continues foster on our streets, have no need - nor desire - to &quot;create cartoonishly evil straw men&quot; when so many real villains, and their apologists, exist, eh Eddy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In voting to remove the Jarvis bike lanes John Parker showed his callous disregard for the safety of cyclists&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Yours is an interesting take on that situation, Mr. Keenan. </p>
<p>Are you forgetting that Councillor Parker&#8217;s involvement in returning Jarvis Street to its again more dangerous, 1957-designed, five narrow-laned configuration, began with his late &#8220;stealth&#8221; motion &#8211; which not only effectively silenced any public input, but also muzzled taxpayer-funded expert transportation staff opinion regarding attendant street-level safety implications &#8211; at the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee (PWIC)? </p>
<p>You may also not be aware that repeated calls to the Councillor&#8217;s office  (following the PWIC&#8217;s subsequent majority &#8211; Minnan-Wong, Shiner, Grimes and again, Parker &#8211; vote to recommend that City Council rescind its approval of the Jarvis bike lanes) to discuss, as you so wisely suggest, the citizen-safety ramifications of said Committee members&#8217; purely partisan-guided collusion, were ignored.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t take my word for it. </p>
<p>Why not do a little more journalistic homework and ask &#8211; in this case, Parker&#8217;s assistant, Ishrath Velshi &#8211; about the stonewalling Councillor&#8217;s refusal to &#8220;have a debate&#8221; on the subject before spreading your own ill-informed, and here so misguided, opinions on the pages of this sadly still-struggling little &#8220;news&#8221;paper.</p>
<p>Those of us who daily face the physical threat that current City Hall corruption continues foster on our streets, have no need &#8211; nor desire &#8211; to &#8220;create cartoonishly evil straw men&#8221; when so many real villains, and their apologists, exist, eh Eddy?
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44944', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44944" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44944', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44944-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">3</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44944" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44944', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44944-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">6</span></p>
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		<title>By: Annie</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44926</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, but his intentions are to do what he thinks is best, which is to remake the city in his own image.  He genuinely believes everyone would be better off if we all lived by his values, one of which is that members of the Ford family take priority over everyone else.  

It&#039;s an asinine belief, but Keenan is right that it&#039;s different from out-and-out wanting to destroy the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, but his intentions are to do what he thinks is best, which is to remake the city in his own image.  He genuinely believes everyone would be better off if we all lived by his values, one of which is that members of the Ford family take priority over everyone else.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s an asinine belief, but Keenan is right that it&#8217;s different from out-and-out wanting to destroy the city.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44926', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44926" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44926', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44926-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">1</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44926" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44926', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44926-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">0</span></p>
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		<title>By: LordStanley</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44906</link>
		<dc:creator>LordStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 06:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You&#039;re overthinking this. Ford&#039;s intentions are what they appear to be: stubborn, disrespectful, willfully ignorant, judgemental, hypocritical, bombastic, etc., etc., etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re overthinking this. Ford&#8217;s intentions are what they appear to be: stubborn, disrespectful, willfully ignorant, judgemental, hypocritical, bombastic, etc., etc., etc.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44906', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44906" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44906', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44906-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">7</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44906" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44906', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44906-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">43</span></p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44886</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 21:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ford isn&#039;t evil, he&#039;s just not very smart. You can convert evil to good, you can debate with a credible opponent, but you can&#039;t fix stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ford isn&#8217;t evil, he&#8217;s just not very smart. You can convert evil to good, you can debate with a credible opponent, but you can&#8217;t fix stupid.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44886', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44886" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44886', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44886-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">19</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44886" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44886', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44886-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">74</span></p>
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		<title>By: Annie</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44882</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well put, LogicToronto, but I think Scrimbro is right -- how can you debate someone who doesn&#039;t share any of your premises?

The way I see it, Rob Ford is unable to wrap his head around the needs or concerns or even the existence of anyone he doesn&#039;t personally know, or anyone who does not share his interests.  That&#039;s why he thanked &quot;everyone in Toronto&quot; for supporting him through his appeal in the Magder case; his opponents don&#039;t exist, they&#039;re a lie. That&#039;s why underprivileged kids of colour playing football in Rexdale mean something to him, while underprivileged kids of colour playing basketball in Malvern are &quot;thugs.&quot;  That&#039;s why he feels entitled to special city-paid services for his football team and his family business.  They are real, and the rest of us -- the riders of TTC buses, the beneficiaries of other city projects -- are not real, and when other people suggest that those people and their needs ARE real, he reacts with anger and insults.  

If we elected a four-year-old mayor who demanded unlimited free candy, I wouldn&#039;t say that child was trying to give everyone malnutrition and tooth decay; but neither would I expect to have a meaningful debate about it with him or her.  There are many right-wingers who are worth debating.  Rob Ford isn&#039;t one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put, LogicToronto, but I think Scrimbro is right &#8212; how can you debate someone who doesn&#8217;t share any of your premises?</p>
<p>The way I see it, Rob Ford is unable to wrap his head around the needs or concerns or even the existence of anyone he doesn&#8217;t personally know, or anyone who does not share his interests.  That&#8217;s why he thanked &#8220;everyone in Toronto&#8221; for supporting him through his appeal in the Magder case; his opponents don&#8217;t exist, they&#8217;re a lie. That&#8217;s why underprivileged kids of colour playing football in Rexdale mean something to him, while underprivileged kids of colour playing basketball in Malvern are &#8220;thugs.&#8221;  That&#8217;s why he feels entitled to special city-paid services for his football team and his family business.  They are real, and the rest of us &#8212; the riders of TTC buses, the beneficiaries of other city projects &#8212; are not real, and when other people suggest that those people and their needs ARE real, he reacts with anger and insults.  </p>
<p>If we elected a four-year-old mayor who demanded unlimited free candy, I wouldn&#8217;t say that child was trying to give everyone malnutrition and tooth decay; but neither would I expect to have a meaningful debate about it with him or her.  There are many right-wingers who are worth debating.  Rob Ford isn&#8217;t one of them.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44882', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44882" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44882', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44882-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">15</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44882" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44882', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44882-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">62</span></p>
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		<title>By: OgtheDim</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44864</link>
		<dc:creator>OgtheDim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegridto.com/?p=123414#comment-44864</guid>
		<description>E.g. 

Local level neo-conservatives in the US have largely moved away from the &quot;put them in jail and let them rot&quot; approach.


The idea that its only the left that listens is a myth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E.g. </p>
<p>Local level neo-conservatives in the US have largely moved away from the &#8220;put them in jail and let them rot&#8221; approach.</p>
<p>The idea that its only the left that listens is a myth.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44864', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44864" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44864', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44864-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">7</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44864" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44864', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44864-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">34</span></p>
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		<title>By: vampchick21</title>
		<link>http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/why-attack-a-straw-man-when-we-can-discuss-his-ideas-instead/#comment-44856</link>
		<dc:creator>vampchick21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thegridto.com/?p=123414#comment-44856</guid>
		<description>Oh James.  Sigh.  See, this is the kind of thing being discussed in the article.  Irony, thy name is the comments section anywhere on the internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh James.  Sigh.  See, this is the kind of thing being discussed in the article.  Irony, thy name is the comments section anywhere on the internet.
<p> <a onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44856', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up"></a> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-44856" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44856', 'add', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_');" title="Thumbs up" /> <span id="karma-44856-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;line-height:20px; position:relative; top:-5px; font-weight:bold;;">18</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-44856" src="http://www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('44856', 'subtract', 'www.thegridto.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_16_')" title="Thumbs down" /> <span id="karma-44856-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#000000; vertical-align:middle;position:relative; top:-5px;  font-weight:bold;;">37</span></p>
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