The dean of students at U of T’s Victoria University thinks today’s young minds need to focus less on grades and more on a rich and well-rounded university experience. Her newly launched program, Ideas for the World, consists of optional discussion-based classes with no marks, no credit and no final. We caught up with the self-described philosophy junkie at her Charles Street office to talk about kids these days, trees falling in the forest and why a university education is like a fine wine.
This interview comes out on the week of the provincial election. Are students engaged in the race or are they too busy obsessing over GPAs and/or keg parties?
I think some students are engaged, or at least marginally engaged, in politics. We certainly encourage it, but there is a tendency towards tunnel vision. There are more people in university than ever right now, so the competition for grades and jobs gets incredibly fierce. Students view the courses and the knowledge gained at university as a means to an end rather than an end in itself.
Is your new program an attempt to temper that tunnel vision?
First off, let me say that I’m not critical of what’s going on in universities. The Ideas for the World program is meant to complement the existing curriculum by offering students a chance to learn, debate and form opinions without the pressure of the almighty GPA. In standard classes, students are so focused on what they need to know for the final that education becomes this process where we open up students’ heads, pour information in and they pour it back out.
Are 18-year-olds really going to peel themselves off the futon to participate in a course that doesn’t earn them any credit?
My husband and I started this as a single course at [U of T’s] Trinity College six years ago and the response was really positive, which is one of the reasons I decided to expand the program. The topics are provocative and applicable—religion in the public sphere, how media and science are affecting society. I really believe that a higher education should be rich and robust.
So university is like a fine wine?
Ha. Yeah, exactly. It’s sort of a paradoxical irony—the push for marks is creating people who are less likely to be singled out in the end, whereas a well-rounded university experience will ultimately make these students more interesting people, and maybe even more interesting employees.
Did you go to university wanting to study philosophy?
No. I didn’t know what to expect at university. I signed up for philosophy thinking it was all about psychology and the human mind, and then we started having all of these debates and I just loved it. I thought I’d died and gone to heaven.
Like, if a tree falls in the forest…
Right. I would have these long discussions with my professors about whether or not God existed, or whether abortion was moral. I know it sounds trite, but I think these conversations are such an important part of education. You know, drinking a latte and debating existentialism. Or what’s the difference between a chair and a person? What is it to be absolutely free? What’s angst?
What is angst?
I would say it’s a cross between despair and panic when faced with absolute freedom. Realizing that I could wake up tomorrow and decide to never talk again, or not go to my job or get on a bus and go to Saskatchewan. The realization that you can do anything is actually totally paralyzing. It’s the “holy shit” moment.
You went to university in 1985. What’s the biggest difference in student life between then and now?
Anyone who answers that question sounds like, you know—“back in my day we used to walk to school barefoot.” But the biggest difference is that today we have information at our fingertips. I sometimes wonder if people feel less curiosity now that they can just turn to Google.
When you’re not fighting for the sanctity of higher learning, what else does a dean of students do?
I’m in charge of the non-academic wellbeing of the students. I deal with policy, crisis management, discipline and code-of-conduct infractions.
What sorts of terrible stuff are kids getting into these days?
Facebook takes up a lot of my time—what’s private, what’s public. Someone will post a photo of their roommate dancing drunk at a party. You get into slander and that sort of thing. Drug use will sometimes come to me depending on how serious it is, and of course I see a lot of students who are having difficulty with mental illness, which is a huge issue.
I read a number of recent articles that refer to you as “feisty.” Do you think that’s accurate?
The media seems to have really latched onto that word. I have a lot of energy and I like to socialize, but I also take my job really seriously. It’s funny, I was grocery shopping with my husband and my kids the other day and I was getting a little worked up about something and he turned to my kids and said, “Mommy’s getting feisty!” It’s kind of a joke now.
Your husband is an ethics professor. Can I assume you guys spend the supper hour debating the finer points of epistemology?
No, we don’t. We spend our supper trying to get our three-year-old to eat his peas and our six-year-old to turn off the TV.
LIGHTNING ROUND
Plato or Aristotle?
Plato.
Dead Poets Society or Lean on Me?
Lean on Me.
Nature or Nurture?
Tied.
Berry or iPhone?
Berry.
Favourite book?
Discipline and Punish or The History of Sexuality—both Foucault.
Favourite dance move?
Anyone else’s.
Best place to make out on campus?
Are you kidding?
Celeb crush?
Franklin the turtle, from the children’s cartoon.
