Wed Feb 8, 2012
Opinion

We the Tweeple: a light-rail remedial class

Much of the debate around Toronto’s transit future has focused on what makes Transit City’s LRTs different from streetcars, or whether they’re different at all. Also: Is an underground Eglinton LRT really a subway? By scouring Twitter for the terms “LRTs are” and “subway is,” among similar phrases, we hoped to educate ourselves on the issue. The results were not encouraging.

@MiroslavGlavic LRTs are a model of streetcars.

@antinephalist @MiroslavGlavic Thus, trucks are a model of car.

@ivortossell An LRT in a tunnel is a subway, like a piece of beef jerky in a bun is a hot dog.

@MiroslavGlavic Underground LRT is NOT a subway. Subways carry different cars.

@I_LuvTO2 @MiroslavGlavic Not all subways are underground. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

@GSawision LRT is a piece of crap dreamed up by Bombardier.

@chadandy The low cost and total success of the St. Clair streetcar line is proof LRT is the way to go.

@AnthCammalleri @TOMayorFord Remind them of the mess LRT did to St. Clair. A subway is long-term solution that will benefit citizens and business in the GTA!

@SheppardSubway @jordanowens Sheppard Subway is approved public policy by the province. Shocking this was buried by the Miller administration.

@jordanowens A subway line that doesn’t exist is tweeting at me. The future is now.

@Robsonian I forgot the LRT is just a scheme to spread the influence of that nefarious scourge: trade unionism.

@oneheadlight I appreciate that you need to trim your toenails, but the subway is not an ideal place to do it.

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Gillian

But Seth (comment below), isn’t LRT impeded by traffic lights – in just the same way that a streetcar is? That’s a key issue with LRT. Linking LRT cars into multi-car vehicles wouldn’t increase speed. I think you’re out of line when you say Andrew “embarrassed himself publicly”!
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10:26 pm on March 9, 2012

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Gillian

Kat,

When chachandy mentioned the “low cost and total success of the St.Clair streetcar line”, he was being sarcastic.
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10:18 pm on March 9, 2012

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Kat

Regarding the “low cost and total success of the St.Clair streetcar line”:

You obviously don’t live off St.Clair. Being in this neighbourhood for years and having experienced both the old and the new, I can honestly say there is very little difference. In fact the new/updated track line has not solved any of the previous problems like: delays, irregular service, etc. Plus, it took 4 years to build in stead of 2 and the project went over budget. How is that for successful proof?

I’m not saying that building LRT is a bad idea on parts of Eglinton instead of underground metro. Certainly the road is wide enough in the sections where they want to put it. I just hope they get professional experts to do the research and offer suggestions. After all, we all have our opinions, just like R.Ford but are they really valid? It’s not like Rob takes the subway, or bus, or streetcar to work everyday. I even doubt that he’s taken any public transit outside of Canada where it’s working well, ie. Europe or Asia.

It’s really unbelievable that the TTC is headed by a new city councillor every four years hand picked by the new mayor. Which would be fine if they were expert in public transportation and familiar with new trends and how other cities have solved their issues, but they’re not, they’re politicians. Too bad for the city of Toronto. That said, I give coodos to Karen Stintz for stirring the pot. People should think about this issue, they should get involved, they should care, because as the Toronto population grows moving around is only going to get harder.
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9:54 am on February 9, 2012

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Danny P

One of those years of delay on St. Clair was the result of business owners attempting to bring legal action against the project.
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10:46 am on February 9, 2012
Seth

Actually, St. Clair has seen a lot of improvement since the upgraded track opened. According to the Globe and Mail, ridership is up 13% since the conversion, car congestion has been reduced, frequency and consistency is statistically better, and accidents have been slashed.

Globe and Mail article cited: “Much maligned St. Clair line not so bad after all.”
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11:51 pm on February 9, 2012
M

It’s funny how everyone claims to live near St. Clair when we talk about it.

The history of constructing the ROW are well known. But the project is now paying off dividends, as the Globe article points out. To deny this is just wrong.
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3:22 am on February 10, 2012

Andrew

San Diego is not exactly known as a good transit system. Neither is Los Angeles, or many other American cities that think that building nothing but “light rail” is the solution for their traffic problems.

Build subways (they can be above ground, they just can’t have grade crossings). Light rail is a joke in a huge city like Toronto. Building a streetcar along Sheppard that requires a transfer at Don Mills/Sheppard will not get cars off the notoriously congested 401.
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4:02 am on February 9, 2012

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Seth

Toronto is only “huge” in terms of area; in population density, Eglinton simply can’t be justified as a subway.

San Diego and LA are not seen as fantastic because of their pitiful ridership stats, but there is a huge cultural difference perpetuating that; in LA, where the car is undeniably king, only the ‘have-nots’ are relegated to transit (mostly slow-moving buses). That’s why people there haven’t been convinced to switch to transit; LA has two subway lines, by the way, and they aren’t any more attractive to motorists than the LRT lines. In Toronto, by contrast, people from every economic and social circumstance use public transit together.

Also, I’m calling you out on calling the LRT a streetcar; every commentator making that assertion only serves to discredit themselves in the faces of the real experts, who all cringe and foam at the mouth to that. An LRT is NOT a streetcar; it isn’t impeded by traffic, it can be coupled into multiple-car vehicles, and it runs at higher operational speeds since it doesn’t have the extreme turning radii of streetcars or single-blade switches that necessitate slow operation.

Educate yourself; do background research before embarrassing yourself publicly with such statements.
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12:26 am on February 10, 2012

city driver

here’s one for you: for the cost of the Eg LRT line, you could buy 16000 buses-enough to fit 1.2 million riders at one time.
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12:18 pm on February 8, 2012

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City Rider

And for the cost of 16,000 buses, you could have many more cars on the road. Would that help congestion, I wonder?

Ycould buy a mountain of doll houses for the cost of your home. Why don’t you live in those instead?
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8:13 pm on February 8, 2012
City Driver

What? Dude, what are you trying to say? I don’t get it. Doll houses?
Buses are a form of public transit right?
And public transit reduces gridlock right?
And the more seats on public transit, the more cars we can get off the road right?

You can buy somewhere between 15 and 20 bus seats for every seat on an LRT.
And it’s available tomorrow.
And buses don’t screw up traffic-which you would know if you had a car.

Explain to me how something that costs 15 times more and isn’t going to be ready for 10 years is better than a proven reliable technology we can start using immediately.
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8:40 am on February 10, 2012
Paul

And what would be the operating costs of hiring enough drivers for 16,000 buses, math whiz?
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9:41 am on February 10, 2012
City Driver

You only need around 1000 buses to provide the same rider capacity as the 200 or so LRT’s. (1200 gives everyone a seat on the bus)
I’m guessing 1000 bus drivers averages out pretty nicely against the many tens of thousands of workers needed to construct and then maintain all of that track and cable.
Especially when you figure in the people needed to drive the LRT’s.
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10:34 am on February 10, 2012
Aidanist

On what planet do buses not impede traffic without requiring dedicated lanes? I ride my bike on Bloor and Harbord every day, and buses sure as hell impede the flow of traffic.
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1:10 pm on February 15, 2012
Anonymous

buses impede traffic more than a 2 lane LRT?
I think not sir.
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10:54 pm on February 16, 2012